Success Stories
Hear from Rathbones employees about their work, their pivotal career moments and their career advice for others.
Success Stories is our video series hosted by Rathbones Investment Director Alex Neilson, where colleagues join him to share their stories of challenge and success at work.
Each episode can be watched below, or you can subscribe to the series' playlist on YouTube.
David
David Blackburn, Head of Insights, shares a defining moment when a tech issue disrupted a client survey, but quick action and learning led to improved systems and better client feedback. He advises using setbacks to fuel improvement, working with empathy, and piloting changes to ensure a positive client experience.
David’s defining moment of resilience
Alex: Thank you for joining me, David. We’re here talking about resilience — and that’s really around businesses and change. So, can you tell me sort of one defining moment in your career to pick one out where you’ve been through a change in business or personally and if that sort of was a success or a failure in the end?
David: Yeah, happy to. So in my role in the insight team at Rathbones we are constantly doing projects whereby we are interested in hearing from our clients. We value their feedback and we are sensitive to ensuring we are delivering the right experience to them. Quite soon after I joined Rathbones doing our annual client satisfaction survey we essentially had a problem — call it a tech problem. In trying to ensure we were getting to male, female, joint account entities we essentially broke the link to our survey and caused all sorts of chaos for our clients because it was a unique link and essentially our systems weren’t set up for it.
So there I am minding my own business Tuesday afternoon heading home from work and all of a sudden I get these emails from clients and from colleagues expressing a bit of frustration that in being asked for feedback they couldn’t actually give feedback.
So the irony wasn’t lost on me — here we are asking for client feedback on the experience of Rathbones and the experience of giving that feedback was a poor one. But we quickly dealt with that. We went back out to all of our clients with a new survey, a new link and I personally went to each individual impacted to express my apologies, get them back on track and tried to resolve the issue as quickly as possible.
So we learned a lot through that. We learned a lot in terms of some of our challenges in terms of systems and ways of working — and roll on 12 months we got twice as much response rate and we had much better feedback from our clients and we had much better feedback from staff as well. And I think as an experience that ability to learn and iterate and improve I think is really critical. Since then we’ve now moved to a new platform, new technology provider and we have had no issues, no complaints.
Taking setbacks personally and moving forward
Alex: I think it’s quite normal actually in the line of work that we do when we’re interacting with clients to take things quite personally when it doesn’t go right or you get clients emailing you or calling you. I know when you’re dealing with investment side, you take returns very personally a lot of the time — but you know, it’s just trying to get over that is quite important. And then if you could offer, I suppose, a bit of personal advice for anyone who’s going through a change, what do you think that would be?
David: So yeah, 100% agree. You do take it a little bit more personally. And in my role, being passionate about the client experience, being sensitive to our clients is absolutely critical. So you work with empathy and you always try to do the right thing for our clients because they’re so valuable to us. So yeah, absolutely do take it personally — but sometimes these things happen.
So in terms of that advice or my own perspective, I think setbacks can fuel that comeback. And when you think about recent examples such as the Lionesses with their heroic performances in the football and the Euros, it helps you to sometimes think about the attitude, think about that resiliency, think about showing that character to see it through. And I think they quote for five minutes the Lionesses were leading in their knockout games — but through penalties, through that determination, that team spirit they got there.
So for me I think resiliency is about setting that course where you’re trying to get to — you know that you’re doing the right thing, you know that it’s important that we are engaging with our clients and we are seeking feedback from our clients. We just need to sometimes think about how do we maybe do smaller scale pilots, how do we build more controls in — but also how do we make sure we are taking the client and the IM on that journey as well.
Alex: Absolutely. And it’s very easy to sort of sit down and despair to some extent — but I personally feel the best way is to sit down, have a five-minute think about how terrible this is and then just get to work. That’s how I would take it anyway. Thank you very much, David.
David: Okay. Thank you.
Jess
Jess Sperring, Client Service Manager, shares her experience transitioning from a regional to a national client service manager role, discussing the challenges of increased responsibility, stakeholder engagement, and overcoming setbacks. The conversation covers building resilience, leadership growth, supporting colleagues through change, and practical advice for approaching workplace challenges with positivity.
Jess’s experience with resilience and change
Alex: Jess, thank you very much for joining me today. We are talking a little bit around resilience and change — and how we overcome that hopefully. So, can you give me an example of when you’ve been through a situation of change or you’ve had to be really resilient in your career?
Jess: Hi, Alex. Pleasure to be here. Uh, yeah, absolutely. So, uh, what springs to mind is when I stepped into the client service manager role for the SAGs. I went from a regional role based in the Bristol office to a more national role and that really tested my resilience because I had more responsibility in central projects and the delivery of those — and with the delivery of those come setbacks, challenges, feedback. So to navigate all of that really pushed me out of my comfort zone.
I worked with a lot more stakeholders and senior management across the business. That was really scary at first — but ultimately I learned some good leadership skills and I found my confidence that my input, my vision, my opinions were really valued. I also hosted a lot more meetings in this role, chaired them, attended them, and I was able to find my voice within this business.
I learned so much — and I’m still learning — and some of those lessons have been learned the hard way through setbacks, mistakes or just things I would look back and think I’d have done that differently. So I think I’m still building confidence and I’m still learning to be more resilient — and I don’t think there’s an end date to resilience. You continue to grow across your career.
And then moving on to how that led me to some success would be really focusing on unifying the South, trying to make sure our voice and our thoughts were represented in the centre — and that was replicated by my colleagues who are client service managers in other regions. So we really had a structure and we worked very well together.
I also supported colleagues through development opportunities. I tried to ensure the region was well supported, well informed and ultimately as equipped as they could be for the upcoming migration to support colleagues. That’s not to say any of that was easy — there was a load of challenges and whether that was process, procedure, people challenges, project challenges or complex client queries, we worked together. I worked with my client service managers and I’m really proud of everything that we achieved as a region.
And it has been a real privilege to contribute to client service — whether that was from escalating issues or running off to find answers, delivering something new or really just acting as a sounding board for my colleagues — and that’s what the success feels like to me.
Overcoming imposter syndrome
Alex: Yeah, absolutely. I think what you’ve said in the first part about jumping into a role — I think a lot of people go through that if they end up going through a promotion or they go for a new job and they join a company. It’s that sort of imposter syndrome and you never feel like you’re deserving of the job or you don’t know how to do it and you don’t deserve it — but actually you do and everyone should back themselves to some extent.
And Jess, if I could ask you to think about one bit of advice you’d give to people who are going through, you know, a difficult time in a company or personally?
Jess’s advice for navigating change
Jess: Yes, definitely. So, I would say to try and approach change with an open mind. Some colleagues are naturally going through more change than others at the moment — and there is more change to come for everybody. It’s really important to remember that every challenge or change that you’ve ever faced up to now — you’ve already got through that. So, it’s proof that you can do it. We all learn lessons along the way.
And whatever you’re feeling right now — whether that’s positive or negative — is completely valid. But if I could give one takeaway, it would be this: in your next meeting or in your next email or just conversation with a colleague, try to bring some of that positivity because not only could it brighten their day — but it could leave you in the right headspace to approach change in a really positive way.
Alex: Great. Thank you very much, Jess. That’s been really useful.
Jess: Thank you, Alex.
David
David Ball, Head of Coaching and Team Performance, shares key moments from his career that tested and built his resilience, including transitioning from trainee to solicitor and adapting to a new global role during the COVID-19 lockdown. The discussion covers imposter syndrome, strategies for responding to change, and practical advice for building resilience, emphasising the importance of self-awareness and adaptability in professional growth.
David’s defining moments of resilience
Alex: Thank you for joining us today, David. We’re here talking about resilience. So, can you uh can you share a defining moment in your career where you truly tested your resilience?
David: Sure. I thought I might cheat a bit and give you two actually. I thought I’d bookend it slightly — so one at the early stage of my career and then one that’s a bit more recent because I think resilience and being tested is something that happens to all of us on a constant cycle. We just kind of get tested in slightly different ways and our resilience builds because of that.
So I originally — before I moved into learning development and I’m the head of coaching and team performance here at Rathbones — so I get the opportunity to work with people to help them build exactly the kind of skills that we’re talking about today. But I originally qualified as a solicitor before I moved into learning and development. I used to be a commercial litigator.
And I always remember when I think back to those days when I qualified, you kind of get to a point where almost like you’re working towards qualification, you know, that’s what you’re working towards. It’s what you want to do. And then all of a sudden, the moment creeps up on you and then overnight you suddenly take on all the responsibility that you’d been looking to, you know, your name goes on everything. And although that was 25 years ago now, I still remember it very well.
And going from one day being a trainee to being a newly qualified solicitor the next day — and all of a sudden everyone I’m used to giving me guidance is there and kind of looking at me to know the answers. And I really enjoyed that. I trained in a firm that was particularly known for being very dynamic and entrepreneurial which meant you took on a lot of responsibility — but then you took on a lot of responsibility and it kind of came quite quickly. So I knew it was coming and I expected it but then that moment when you suddenly realise all that weight’s on your shoulders is quite big — and it definitely tests your resilience. So that’s something I still am grateful for — that experience that I had — and I take a lot of those skills and what I learned along the way into my role now and always have. And that’s kind of like at the early stage of my career.
And I said I’d sort of cheat a bit and give you a second — and the second was the organisation that I was in before I joined Rathbones. I’m thinking about COVID and lockdown in particular and I think all of us found that very difficult. It tested all of our resilience to say the least in ways we never knew that we were going to have to deal with. So whilst I knew qualifying was one thing — it was coming and I was ready — but I had to be able to embrace that and manage it. COVID lockdown — none of us could see that coming. And I think it’s very easy when we look back to lockdown now to kind of look at it as a point in time and we know we came out of it. But during that period, none of us knew what was going to happen. We didn’t know what was happening with the world. And everything we were used to — we spent a long time building up — suddenly changed.
And so my personal professional story there is I moved across to a new role in January 2020. It was my first role outside a law firm. I’d been working in law firms and professional services for 20 years and it was my first global head of learning development role. Started January 2020 and we had a big plan about how I was going to travel, be able to build the team, build the relationships, get to know the business.
Then of course two months later the world changed and I was in a position where I’d spent 15 years by then working in learning and development building the skills to be able to make connections, build relationships, present to rooms, run workshops — and you’re used to reading a room and reading people and making those connections. And we then went to a point where you could see this much of someone — and it’s a very very different way of working. And I was leading a team, I was leading a function in a large organisation and so having to deal with all those changes and what people wanted and needed in a way that none of us could have seen coming took a real change — as I know it will have for anybody watching this film in the future too.
Overcoming challenges and imposter syndrome
Alex: Yeah. I suppose there’s two follow-up points there for your two. I think the first one is around imposter syndrome almost. I mean everyone who’s had a promotion or you know you’ve got a job where there’s more responsibility goes through that sort of imposter syndrome phase of you don’t really know what you’re doing — but actually you do have to back yourself to some extent. That’s what I would say to people as well. Yeah. And then secondly, I suppose around COVID — every different situation — but can you sort of talk us through what successes you achieved after you got over the initial working-from-home shock?
David: Yeah, sure. I think that you’re absolutely right. Imposter syndrome, I think, is something that so many people face. So very often in my day job if you like I spend time talking to people about exactly that — you know, to have the courage and the confidence that got them to where they are and to make the most of that to support and inspire the people that follow them. And we definitely do get that. I think what I took away from that story was having the courage of your convictions — knowing that you do what you do for a reason and being able to have the confidence to sometimes take your time, take a step back, think about what you’re doing — but know you’re in the right place to do the right thing and keep telling yourself that.
I think sometimes with imposter syndrome we often have self-limiting beliefs — which are sort of stories that we tell ourselves over and over again — and very often it’s taking a break, stopping that and thinking about all the positive reasons why you do what you do. And that’s definitely something that I took away.
Right on the COVID example — so that situation I remember having to adapt to delivering training sessions in the early days before Teams was much more advanced than it was five years ago. So in the early days we actually had to use WebEx and I remember there was a very small part of my kitchen where I could put the camera and there was nothing behind me so it looked like I was delivering training like normal. And I had to move my then seven-year-old son’s Lego out of the way and be able to run workshops with people across our offices all around the globe.
But what was really good was we got the opportunity to make connections with people that we hadn’t before. We got the opportunity to make groups of people from different offices spend time together and be in sessions together that they couldn’t have done before. So we got the flexibility. We learned to be able to use technology and the tools because it gave us the chance to think about doing things differently — which within learning development right across every sector has been something we’re always doing and thinking of doing — but circumstances gave us the opportunity and the driver to do that.
So, like you say, when you get over that initial shock and kind of start to feel a bit balanced, there were things you’re able to take away from it. And I think what I took away from that lesson now — of that situation now — is we’re all much more resourceful than perhaps we give ourselves credit for and recognising that we can adapt and we can adjust and be confident in doing that.
David’s advice for building resilience
Alex: Yeah. I mean, it’s one of the successes of, I suppose, flexible working is that we probably feel more connected to people that we’ve never met rather than people who sit on the desk next to us because we don’t necessarily see them every day. That’s funny. And if you could give one piece of personal advice to someone about sort of being successful and being resilient, what do you think that would be?
David: It’s really interesting to ask because it’s something I get asked a lot in my day job. You think, how can we respond to change? And I think we know as people and professionals and as an organisation, we’re always going to be looking forward. We’re going to be thinking, what can we do that continues to build on what we’ve already done so well? What can we do differently? What can we do to adapt? So change is going to happen. We will be doing things in new ways. And I think the best advice I can give someone is to know how you individually respond. So what you need — and we all have different reactions to change. We have different reactions ourselves to different types of change. So knowing what we’re likely to see, what we need, being able to kind of spot those signs in ourselves as well and what we need to understand and respond.
And sometimes some people often spend time when we work with tools or with groups around how you respond to change when it’s happening. It can be thinking, well do I need to understand the reason something’s happening? So the intellectual case if you like that I can take away and I can think about. Do I need to understand the emotional reason that something’s changing? So what it means to me and how I respond to that. And whether you then need time to digest, time to think through — or sometimes the energy to be able to do things quickly. Know what you need, be able to put that in place and then you can respond and use those techniques.
Alex: Great. Thank you very much, David. That’s really helpful.
David: Thank you.
Sarah
Sarah Ferriby, Senior Manager of Training & Competence, shares her experience of joining Rathbones during the COVID lockdown, highlighting the challenges of remote onboarding and the importance of building relationships through virtual meetings. She offers advice on resilience during business change, emphasising the value of trusting the change journey, talking to others, and being kind to oneself.
Sarah’s experience of resilience and change
Alex: Sarah, so we’re here talking about resilience and overcoming change — and thank you for hopefully sharing some of your valuable advice. So, if I could press you for sort of one moment in your career where you’ve gone through change or had to be resilient in something that you’ve done, could you give that to me?
Sarah: I absolutely could. So actually it’s about when I joined Rathbones five years ago — which if you work it back that’s lockdown and COVID. So obviously it was a disaster happening around the world at that time. And I joined and we were all at home. We’d got no laptops, no Teams like we’ve got now. So actually I had to kind of go, what am I going to do? How are we going to get to know people etc. And for those people who know me know that I’m a people person. I love chatting to people. I prefer conversation, not through emails. So it was a really challenging time to kind of go, well, how can I adapt myself a little bit and work through all of that?
So instead, I booked meaningful half-hour meetings in people’s diaries through the old Zoom that we don’t use anymore obviously — because we’ve now got Teams and the wonderfulness of that. So it meant that I actually had good conversations with people — found out about them, their dogs, their cats, their children — but also found out about their kind of wider team. So I then had another person I could make a telephone call to. And so that was, you know, it was really hard because it is that kind of you want to just bunker down — that’s what everybody was doing — and actually I needed to be out there kind of meeting people and getting to know people. So it was really hard to kind of work through that, but I did. And it’s worked so much for the best for me as well with the relationships I’ve now formed through Rathbones.
Alex: Yeah, I think it’s when you look back, it’s a very odd time and as we’ve had before in these series, you almost have better relationships with people that you don’t work with at all than sometimes people who are directly next to you.
Sarah: Yeah. Absolutely. So it is quite weird.
Sarah’s advice for navigating change
Alex: And then if you could think about one bit of advice you’d give to somebody who’s going through, I suppose, a business change or they’re going through a tough period or there’s something going wrong in their area and they need to sort of work through it — what would that be?
Sarah: I think, you know, I’m a trainer by heart in the background as well. So you kind of always want to put a theory to something, don’t you? And actually there’s always the change curve — and that is a journey. And I think remembering that you are on a journey and there will be some setbacks. You know, you think about the change curve and where that kind of acceptance and denial are — and there’s some anger in there as well. You will go forward and sometimes you’ll go back, but trust in that journey entirely.
But actually also talk to others. Be kind to yourself. You know, when we are going through these periods of change and all this stuff going on, you think about all the things that we’ve been through as a firm recently. We’ve been through so much together. And the greatest thing we can do for each other is talk to each other. Because whilst you might be in a different place to somebody else, you might make them feel good by chatting to them — but also you make yourself feel better. So just go through that journey together. And as I say, yeah, talk to each other — but just be kind to yourself. Don’t beat yourself up and don’t do it alone. There’s plenty of people around to help and support you.
Alex: Yeah, I think I would echo that completely and Rathbones is always someone to help you out for sure. Thank you very much, Sarah.
Sarah: No, you’re welcome. Thank you.
Martha
Martha Back, Investment Director, talks about the importance of coming into the office, widening your network and being in charge of your own destiny.
Martha’s advice for aspiring leaders and investors
Alex: Martha, thank you very much for joining us today to hopefully hear a bit about your career and the advice that you’d like to give. Yeah. So, if you could give one piece of advice to someone who wants to do your job in either a leadership sense or an investment sense, what would that be?
Martha: I would say being present if you’re coming into the role — particularly in the way we work now and we work from home — is I found, you know, I worked five days a week when I was younger and that’s how I learned. It’s sometimes it’s not just being part of the conversation — it’s listening to conversations around you. You learn so much from discussions. You get used more because people — because you’re there. And so my main bit of advice to someone would be come to the office.
The importance of visibility and volunteering
Alex: Yeah. I think we’ve heard a few times about, I suppose, visibility or volunteering for projects or different parts outside of your current skill set. Yeah. Do you think that’s important?
Martha: Absolutely. And I think you meet other people in the business. You find out about other ways things work and it’s just a way — we’re a big firm now — so it’s a good way of just seeing what else is around and what other people are doing. Um I do a lot of — I do the mentoring programme, been doing it for years and it again it’s a great way of meeting people, getting to know people generally. I’ve always had people outside of London, so even more beneficial way of seeing what’s going on and seeing how the firm works in different areas.
Pivotal moments in Martha’s career
Alex: If you look at your career, do you think there’s one or two moments in there that are pivotal or have had a large effect on the outcome so far?
Martha: Um gosh I would say — well it sounds a bit naff — but actually moving to Rathbones was a big moment for me. I wasn’t where I was previously. I wasn’t very happy, wasn’t enjoying the way the business was moving and where it was headed. So moved and it’s definitely, you know, suddenly my confidence picked up, life changed and really enjoyed my job. Yeah. Um and still do.
The impact of management style
Alex: Do you think that’s maybe down to management or, I suppose, how well you gel with a manager?
Martha: Yeah. And just being allowed to be in charge of your own destiny a bit more rather than being micromanaged. So yes, not having someone looking at every minute detail. It was just right — you go out there, you get your clients, you look after them and, you know, they oversee what we’re up to, but they’re not influencing everything that we do and how we do it. But yeah, it was definitely changed one’s day-to-day life by moving here.
Closing remarks
Alex: Great. I’m glad to hear it and thank you very much for your time.
Martha: Not at all. Not at all.
Richard
Richard Cook, Senior Financial Planner, shares his insights on going above the minimum, completing additional exams, and establishing a strong internal reputation.
How Richard became an adviser
Alex: Thank you Richard for joining us today to talk about your career and your advice that you would give. So can you share a pivotal career moment?
Richard: Of course. So what I’d like to talk about today is actually how I became an adviser in the first place. So I started off in financial services back in 2011. I started working actually for a small independent financial adviser practice. It wasn’t sort of a big city firm at the time. And at that stage I had relatively little career experience. So I’d come out of university. I studied history. And I was trying to work out kind of where I wanted to be. And for this particular vocation, I mean I didn’t have any financial services experience whatsoever. I worked for the National Trust prior to coming into finance in a sort of a customer service role.
And then when I wanted to make a step into this sort of career, you know, you kind of have to start at the bottom as it were. So I was doing a sort of administrative assistant type role for that firm. And what I was looking to try and do is build myself up to try and become a paraplanner was the first thing. So that’s a person who does the technical advice for an adviser rather than necessarily looking straight to becoming an adviser as the trajectory over time. And the reason for doing that is one that you know I’m good at the technical side and two partially confidence. You know I’d not done a role like this before. I’d not done a big client-facing role before. So I set myself what I thought was a reasonable target and try and do that over a couple of years.
Moving forward a couple of years effectively, I’d moved into the city. So I was working for Coots Private Bank — again through working through the ranks, assistant then officially a paraplanner supporting a managing director. And at this stage the bank was going through quite a few structural changes as we all have happen in the industry at times and they were looking for voluntary redundancies from people and some people were moving around. And what I didn’t know is one of the financial planners within our client group had made a decision that he wanted to move back to Spain where he grew up with his family and there was going to be a role that was open there.
I was sitting at my desk one day and I got a tap on the shoulder and it was the person in charge of the client group and she took me aside and said we’ve got this new role we’re looking to fill — we think you’d actually be really good for this, I think you should apply. And you know it was a surprise to me — not that I was being asked to do it but I hadn’t prepared exactly for that moment at that time. I was thinking about next steps in career and becoming an adviser but it wasn’t something I was immediately ready to. And if you’d asked me at the time was I ready, was I confident about doing that — arguably not. On the technical side yes, I felt I knew my job very well from my paraplanning experience but from a client-facing experience I didn’t have as much as you would have thought.
My old adviser at Coutts was very good — he knew I was very good at managing his book effectively so he would go off to the meetings, he would leave me to deal with the client calls, deal with the administration, prepare the reports, but he wasn’t very good at bringing me physically to meetings. So I hadn’t actually been to many full meetings. So I didn’t really know how the whole process worked. So I had to make a choice. Did I stay with that paraplanning role, which I was comfortable with, thinking, oh, I should wait a bit longer, build my skills up, try and go to more meetings and then apply for the role, or do I go actually, you know what, I’m going to go for this and see what happens. And that’s what I did. So applied for the role, went in, got the interview, got the job, and then you’re starting.
And again, it’s a big transition for anyone going through that — that transition from being a support to an adviser to kind of leading a client meeting from start to finish yourself is a big step. And I was probably at first more stilted, more formal. I had a very formulaic process for advice. Once you start doing it for a bit longer, you enjoy the meetings more because you get to build relationships with clients, but also you learn your own pattern and build more of your personality into your meetings — which is the bit that I really enjoyed.
The importance of good managers and mentors
Alex: Sounds like you’ve had some good bosses that you’ve worked for that have pushed you, I suppose, pushed you forward in your career. Do you think that that’s an important part, finding someone to work under that you gel with?
Richard: 100%. I mean it’s working with good people and learning from them is hugely important and I have worked with, as you say, good people over the years. The other thing that I think is important is trying to impart or help other people coming up through the ranks if I was looking at how I got to my position.
So one of the reasons I think I was tapped on the shoulder — there’s a few reasons I think I was tapped on the shoulder. And it’s things I would encourage other people to think about as well. So the first is that I was very technical and I spent a lot of time doing additional exams. So I was probably the most qualified paraplanner in the bank at that stage. I was going through the personal finance route which is the chartered financial planner route but I was going up to approaching the fellow level, the same side on the certified financial planner route. So the Chartered Institute for Securities & Investment. So I was doing lots of different exams. I was doing internal bits as well. And what that meant was I almost became a subject matter expert within my client group for anything financial planning.
So when private bankers for example were talking to clients about potential needs they would come and ask me questions afterwards — say I’ve got this situation, what would you do? Actually sometimes they were coming to me instead of going to the actual financial planners within the department which again builds your reputation. So trying to not just go for the minimum level, trying to push beyond that in terms of your learning and understanding is something that I very much focused on.
Secondly, I built that general reputation. So being helpful, approachable, very good at what you do, reliable — all these sort of things. And I helped not just my adviser, I was asked to support other people in the business at various stages as well. So that again helped build my internal reputation.
And thirdly, I think it’s crucial to signpost direction of travel even if you’re not entirely sure exactly where you’re going to end up. So with my line manager in one-to-ones I was talking — I’m considering becoming an adviser in the future, how do I go about doing that, what can I work on that gets me further along? Because to be frank, no one is 100% ready whenever they take on a new role that’s different. I wasn’t 100% ready to be an adviser but you put yourself in that position and you learn effectively on the job. It’s like learning to drive — you learn to drive and you get the basic skills but you actually learn more when you’re out driving on the road and that’s the same as financial planning as well. So trying to build yourself and develop over time is important.
If you can get a good mentor is another crucial thing. I wasn’t particularly good at that. I was always quite self-reliant and I felt I could just do things myself. I know so many people have benefited from the learning experience and the opportunities that potentially a mentor can bring as well.
Richard’s best career advice
Alex: No, I think we’ve heard that a few times — especially what you’re saying about specialising and being that subject matter expert. I think Richard, could you answer if you’ve had one really good piece of advice in your career?
Richard: Oh, that’s a good question. It’s a difficult one because I think you’ve got to focus on your reputation. It’s not just the work that you do because as a youngster starting out, I felt that if you do a really good job, it’ll be recognised. But it’s hugely important to build that internal reputation within the organisation as well. And that may mean doing things like this — going out and doing things that are not officially your job, but whether that’s I’m a mentor as well. You do lots of different things that will help out. And these things do get recognised if you’re going beyond your effective job role as well. So trying to do that and build your internal marketplace.
Obviously adviser-wise some degree of specialism can help. So you can’t be everything for everyone. So working out which clients you gel with more and the value you can bring to those clients as well rather than going I can do everything for everyone — because certain clients won’t work for each adviser as much as someone else.
Alex: Yeah. And it’s one thing we have heard as well — being a yes person and getting your visibility out there is really important.
Richard: Yeah. And I also think that having that questioning ability and making sure that what you’re doing is right. Self-reflection is hugely important. And however accomplished you are in your job, in your career, there will always be moments where you look back and, you know, even within meetings you kind of go, no one’s asked me that before — that’s really interesting. And so no one’s fully accomplished. There’s always an opportunity to learn within your roles.
Alex: Absolutely. Always learning. But thank you very much, Richard. I think that’s been really really useful.
Richard: Thank you.
Hamish
Hamish Barton, Divisional Head, reflects on leadership, learning from mistakes, and taking a long-term view of your career journey.
Hamish’s pivotal career moment
Alex: Hamish, thank you very much for joining us today to talk a little bit about your career and the advice you’d give to people. So to start us off, can you share a pivotal career moment with us?
Hamish: I think the pivotal career moment for me actually came outside of work. Having played sport all of my life, I was very lucky to have captained age group sports teams all the way through. And then when I moved to London to start work, I started playing rugby in a men’s rugby team. And in my second season there, I was asked to captain the men’s team. So I was 22, 23 at the time, captaining a side that contained people who were 10, 12 years older than me, materially more experienced, that played rugby at a much higher level.
And from a confidence perspective, it completely changed my outlook of assuming that you could only ever lead people if you were older than them and more experienced than them. And I think that gave me that kind of pivotal moment of actually leadership is a skill set. It’s not necessarily something that you just do because you’re older, more experienced. Some people are more comfortable doing it than others. And I think for me that was a real realisation moment — almost like a light bulb moment — where you kind of looked at it and actually all that stuff you read about people being leaders or not leading kind of almost started to believe in it at that point in time. So I think that changed my perspective from that point on basically.
Overcoming imposter syndrome and embracing opportunity
Alex: Yeah, we’ve heard it before as well that you’re not necessarily ready to be a leader or ready to move into a client-facing role — you know, that imposter syndrome — but actually you need that push to sort of get there.
Hamish: I think you’re absolutely right. I think it’s the age-old thing — people are applying for jobs and you say, “Well, we’re not going to employ them because they haven’t got the experience.” Well, if you don’t ever give anyone opportunity, they’re never going to get the experience. And if you think someone has got the credentials to do it then you ought to give them the opportunity — providing that you can give them the support structure that goes around it to help them.
And I think I was very lucky that I was given that — there was a much more experienced coaching staff but also I think fundamentally in a team environment if you’re all trying to achieve the same thing, i.e. to win a game of sport, then everyone wants to work together in order to do that. So it was quite a good environment to find yourself in. There was no sense that people wanted me to fail. And I think that obviously makes a huge huge difference.
The best advice Hamish has received
Alex: So if you look at, I suppose, advice that you’ve been given in a work sense — so dealing with clients and dealing with people that you line manage — what do you think is the best piece of advice that you’ve been given?
Hamish: Can I give two?
Alex: Yeah, of course.
Hamish: So the first piece of advice that I was given was take your job seriously but don’t take yourself too seriously — in terms of the way that you perceive others and the perception that others have of you. I think that has been very very important.
And the other was if you make a mistake don’t double down — so don’t make another mistake afterwards. Fundamentally, you know, and obviously you’ll know it from an investment piece — the worst thing you can do is make a mistake and then make another. So if you bought something that you shouldn’t have bought, sell it straight away. Don’t double down by saying you have another wrong decision and holding on to it. I think putting your hand up — in both senses, in an investment sense and also if you ever do anything wrong at work or it’s a mistake — owning up to it is really important. It’s a really important skill to be able to take ownership of.
Alex: Couldn’t agree more. Obviously that becomes — if you don’t take ownership then that’s your second mistake straight away. So it’s that not making a mistake because everyone makes mistakes, you can’t get away from it, but not making another mistake straight afterwards is absolutely crucial.
Hamish’s advice for future leaders
Alex: And then if you were to pass on a piece of advice to maybe someone more junior or someone who’s looking to move into a leadership role, what do you think that would be?
Hamish: Given the importance of the two pieces of advice that I just previously gave, it would be unauthentic for me to not say that I would pass those on because I absolutely would. But I would also pass on that you need to be always thinking with a three to five-year time horizon ahead of you. Don’t get wound up in the short term because at times it’s a bit like looking at a share price performance over a 20-year period. If you boil it down to three months then it can look horrible — and there will be periods in leadership or in this job where it can feel horrible. But think of it as a three to five-year thing and always be thinking what steps do I need to take to get me where I need to be three to five years from now. So try and be longer-termist as possible and try and block out some of the short-term noise to make that a bit more feasible.
Alex: Yeah, I’ve always said that wealth is a long-term plan. It’s not a quick trip around. And you’re absolutely right — generationally our clients, hopefully you’re taking them on with a view to looking after them for decades, not years.
Hamish: Yeah. But also the reality is state pension is getting further and further away from us. Pensions are going to move further away from us. So young people’s careers realistically are getting longer and longer. And as a result, I think you need to be willing to accept that you might feel like you’re trending sideways for three years. But if you have a 30-year career, that’s 10% of your career. It’s not bad to have a consolidation phase at some point in time. So yes, you should be ambitious and yes, you should want to achieve, but I think you’ve also got to balance that with an acceptance that you’ve got to learn and grow before you’re then potentially ready to take the next step.
Alex: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you very much, Hamish. I think this has been really useful.
Hamish: Not at all. Thank you.
Charlotte
Charlotte Kennedy, Financial Planner, discusses her career journey via our graduate scheme, becoming Chartered, and succeeding in a male-dominated industry.
Charlotte’s pivotal career moment
Alex: Charlotte, thank you very much for joining us today to talk a bit about your career. So, can you share a pivotal career moment with us?
Charlotte: Of course. So I’d say a pivotal career moment for me was becoming a chartered financial planner and authorised to provide financial advice by the Financial Conduct Authority. So I started on a graduate scheme in 2010 — a financial planning graduate scheme — and became chartered in 2015. And I’d say it’s a pivotal career moment for a few reasons.
The first is as part of that journey it was five years of exams. So there was a bit of a juggling act between doing the day-to-day job and then studying in the evenings and the weekends. And when you’re in your twenties that feels like — on the social side — that feels like quite a commitment because I felt like I was always saying no to things and sorry I’ve got to study. So it felt like a big achievement then coming through those five years of exams and finishing those.
I suppose one bit of advice that I would give to people coming through and doing the exams is to make sure you try and put yourself first. So as hard as it is, I would try and leave work on time so you’re not studying too late into the evenings and take advantage of any study days that might be available to you.
The second point I’d say on the pivotal career moment is probably the point of being authorised. So that means that you can provide financial advice directly to clients rather than act in a supporting role. So it was quite a big change in terms of moving from a supporting role and supporting an adviser to then actually being able to help clients face to face. And I’d say that’s probably part of the job that I enjoy the most — in terms of actually getting to know people, building relationships with the clients.
Whereas previously it was more of a back-office role in terms of dealing, administration, and drafting advice. And I’m a bit of a people pleaser, so I think the building relationships and feeling like you’re helping clients gives me the most job satisfaction.
And because I’ve started in 2010 and stayed at the same firm and the same bank of clients, actually some of the clients I’ve been working on for quite a long time — so 10, 15 years. So I’ve got really strong relationships with those.
And then lastly on the pivotal career moment I would say that being a female financial adviser — I read a statistic that said by 2025 over 60% of the UK wealth will be held by women but actually only 16% of financial advisers are women. So I felt quite proud being part of that 16%. Whilst that’s still quite a low figure and we’ve got a long way to go, hopefully having female role models as advisers in the company will help those coming through realise it’s actually quite a satisfying and fulfilling job role.
Advice for passing exams and prioritising yourself
Alex: Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s really important as you said about exams to take yourself away from the desk.
Charlotte: Yes.
Alex: I always found that going into a meeting room, booking a meeting room out from five and just going and sitting in there — that’s how I studied.
Charlotte: Yes.
Alex: I think it’s quite important so people aren’t bothering you because you do have to pass those exams. Yes, that would be my piece of advice for younger individuals in the company. But what would your piece of advice be if you could give one?
Charlotte: I mean, similar to as you said, I think you really do have to make sure you put yourself first because you need to put the time in to pass those exams. And at the end of the day if you don’t put the time in to pass the exams, then you’re going to be spending more time away from the day-to-day job because you’re having to do retakes. So if you can really earmark time and put yourself first and be a bit selfish when it comes to — I really need to leave at five or go into a meeting room as you say to study to get this done so I can pass it first time. And most people have, you know, when you’re working in a team of advisers, they’ve already been through it. They know how difficult it is, so they’ll be supportive of you doing that.
Building client relationships
Alex: You mentioned managing clients and sort of those interactions. Do you have any that sort of stand out for you or a type of a way that you like to interact with clients?
Charlotte: That’s a good question. I think meeting clients face to face is my preference and getting to know both parties if it’s a couple that I’m looking after — getting to know both parties. I think that’s really important that they’re both on the same page when it comes to talking about the finances. And then generally speaking with clients we tend to get to know the children as well because clients might want to do junior ISAs for their children for example and then when they turn 18 you then have to have the financial planning and the risk conversations with those clients as well. So you do feel that you’re helping manage the whole family in one go which is really good.
Alex: Yeah. Quite important to get the younger generation early.
Charlotte: I agree. Yes. Exactly. There’s not really much financial education in schools actually. So I think parents quite like it when they know that you’re talking to their children about financial planning because it feels like you’re giving them a bit of a financial education.
Alex: Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you very much. That’s been really good.
Charlotte: Okay. Thank you.
Alex: You’re welcome.
Charlie
Charlie Newsome, Divisional Director, talks about becoming an expert, being curious about new ideas and studying successful people.
Charlie’s advice for career success
Alex: Charlie, thank you very much for joining us today. What do you think is one piece of advice you would give to someone with less experience to succeed in your role?
Charlie: I think that it’s the same piece of advice I give to everybody who’s asking about their career — do something or specialise in something in your role that you truly love and really roll up your sleeves and become an expert in that role so that you become the go-to person in that process or that decision. And then people respect you, you build a reputation within the firm, and you’re the piece of knowledge — an area that people respect.
A pivotal career moment
Alex: Charlie, do you have one important moment in your career you’d like to share with everyone?
Charlie: I think, yeah, this is a really interesting question. Many years ago, I was working out of London within stockbroking in a job I wasn’t really enjoying — but an industry I loved. And I met Robert Baron at an industry conference — I think it was in Scotland actually. And he said to me, “If you ever think about moving to London, just phone me up and we’ll have a chat.” And I phoned him a few days later. And within what literally felt like a few days, I was working in the London office. And that moved my career forward. And I’ll never forget that chance that Robert gave me. So I’m very grateful to him.
The best career advice Charlie has received
Alex: And what is the best piece of career advice that you personally have been given?
Charlie: I think it’s be curious for longer. Don’t be too judgmental too quickly. Be inquisitive about new trends, new ideas and people. One of the things I heard a long time ago is try and dig up the drains. And what I mean by that is look beyond the obvious. Look really deep into what’s going on and try and understand the motivation. I think sometimes you come across successful people and you think that’s really interesting — and then if you go and really study those successful people over many years you will begin to learn some tips and advice about why they’re successful and why they’re doing certain things and their approach to life. And I think studying successful people will give you some great career steers and ideas of what you should do in your career.
Learning from successful investors
Alex: So you’ve mentioned studying successful people. Do you have any specific examples for investments?
Charlie: I think through most of my career I’ve followed Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger. These are two inspirational people who’ve led Berkshire Hathaway — a truly excellent investment for people. They are not only inspirational in what they do in terms of their investment and their investment thought process, but the way they lead their lives. Sadly, we lost Charlie a couple of years ago and Warren’s an old man now — but he’s still amazing in what he’s done. He will give vast amounts of his fortune away to charity. And I think what I’ve learned from those two in terms of the way they approach life and investing has been an inspiration to me.
Alex: Thank you very much, Charlie.
Lucy
Lucy Mimnaugh, Investment Director, outlines her pivotal career moment of returning to work, overcoming self-doubt, and how saying 'yes' opened up new opportunities.
Lucy’s pivotal career moment
Alex: Lucy, thank you for joining us today. I wanted to ask a couple of questions. The first one — can you give us a pivotal career moment for you?
Lucy: So I think probably — I mean there’s a few I could think about: changing jobs, joining Rathbones, doing an MBA, doing your exams as everyone has to do. But I think for me the real one that I learned the most about myself was probably coming back from maternity leave. So about a year and a half ago I came back having had a little girl and took nine and a half months off with her.
And I think I came back as everyone does thinking, oh this will be a breeze — I’ll walk straight back in, it’ll just be as I left nine months before. And it wasn’t. And I think that was quite a shock to me.
They do — the team has to get on without you, they have to learn to adapt, you’re not there for nine months and they have to learn to just keep going. And so when you come back I came back and felt, oh I’m not really needed anymore, maybe I’m redundant.
And I think you hear it a lot — imposter syndrome — and I think that really hit home for me, kind of thinking wow, actually am I needed? They’ve got on and things like that. So it was a bit of a shock and it probably took me nearly nine months to get back into work. But I think I’ve learned so much about myself in that time and now I think I’m more resilient probably than I ever was before.
For example, last week I did a presentation and before I’d have had butterflies thinking, oh I can’t do this. And I didn’t get nervous at all. I think having had a child and what you go through with them, you think, well, it doesn’t matter. I’ve walked around with many things on my t-shirts and jumpers — you think, what can really go wrong? So I think I’ve learned to be much more resilient. And there’s a lot of mothers returning to work. And I think there’s a network out there. So I think I really found other mothers who were in the same position, very similar time to me. And you kind of create a little group of you and you support each other. And I think for me it’s made me learn the most about myself — definitely coming back from maternity leave.
Lucy’s advice for junior team members
Alex: And if you could give one piece of advice to say a more junior or less experienced member of the team to succeed in your role, what do you think that would be?
Lucy: So I think it would be — yes, just be a yes man. So in your twenties, thirties, early in your career, you do have more energy. And I think especially if you know you’re thinking of having children or you’re fortunate enough to have children, it does change your priorities. And so I think in my twenties I’d say yes to going to networking events, going to anything. You think, well, this is great for my opportunity, for my career. And it was. And so I think for anyone starting out or working their way up their career path, just say yes to everything. Because the older you get, the less energy you naturally have just because you’re a bit older. And if you have family, those commitments have to change. So it would definitely be — take every opportunity you can.
Alex: Thank you, Lucy. And I think everyone who has kids would completely agree with that.
